CAN WE TRUST THE TOAD?
The one
irreproachable piece of entheogenic orthodoxy - or truism - by now a
routine, tired cliche - is that mother earth - or the sentient Gaian
'web of life', (if one shies away from naive anthropomorphism) -
secretes the substances needed to correct the inherent waywardness and
corruption of the planet's inhabitants. In a sense, this is surely true -
'in plants we trust' is the motto for EGA and I most certainly agree
that plants, trees insects, flora, fauna - all living things in fact,
are highly conscious beings. Recent studies have shown that trees , for
example, act intelligently and even compassionately, supplying sugars to
dying companions while creating symbiotic environments for ants,
allowing tumors or galls to form as havens for aphid farming
insects...research has shown that extensive myco-rhizomic networks
within the soil provide a fungi-mediated 'nervous system' that allows
trees to communicate and share information with each other. I take this
hypothesis further, and claim that trees are repositories of an enormous
and primordial consciousness. All products of Gaia are therefore in a
complex relationship with each other, it's endogenous networks and it's
inherent wisdom. The toad is thus, naturally, an emissary of this innate
intelligence. In this sense, we should trust the Toad. It is Man we
should be wary of. Is it fair to ask, then , what it is the toadsters
and the entheogenic imbibers are doing to help the planet and save
Humankind from itself? Are they engaging with the wider issues of the
primary infestation of the planet or simply indulging themselves in
self-cherishing vision quests and peak experiences? What is it the Earth
wants them to do with these gifts of hers which she so generously
dispenses? Why - she wants them to assist of course. She wants them to
DO something about the extensive infection of the planet by the
Archontic and powerful AI forces at work at every level, carried out ,
as host, principally and signally by Man himself, the sell-appointed
dominator of this realm. No one in the much touted 'shamanic resurgence'
community seem to be understand, with all the tedious persiflage about
-neuro transmitters , serotonin and MOA inhibitors- how these
medicines prescribed by their beloved Mother actually work - that they
act, principally, to kill off, at least temporarily - the parasite
infecting us all. Among the few who do understand this, none seem to
be terribly concerned with its urgent implication , preferring instead
to defer the great work of Beast Mind divestment until they finish
rolling around in ecstasy , when it's time, in any case, to hang out at
the malocca and see who you can hook up with to deal with the
concomitant but largely irrelevant excess sexual energy... and
explaining away to themselves the primary infestation as a temporary
psychic by-product of 'less evolved' consciousness, which of course
does not apply to them - the 'chosen ones' - claiming that this
infestation, where it is obvious and can't be denied because directly
revealed by the plants and other terra-psychotropes- must be
accommodated, assimilated, and allowed to utilize our life force so
they can evolve to higher vibrational phi-ratio states and hence
cosmically de-resonate out of the delusional miasma... and further, that
the inherent infestation does not apply, naturally, to the 5 Meo
initiate - who can now evolve his/her soul to greater heights, because
they have gazed on the face of God, and it is - lo! - themselves - - I
AM that I AM!!.. ..twat twam asi or simply arsehole twat? Ego
transcendence or ego-massage? The initiates, having dipped their toe
into the ineffable, claim that they can co-exist with their lower astral
entities(which are not, strictly speaking, 'alive' at all -i.e., not in
contact with the life force), and which should, by the 'cosmic law' of
compassion and forgiveness, be allowed to remain attached in order to
profit from our own 'higher awareness'...This is the most cunning and
deeply laid narrative of PEEP and the 'non-living' realm. I've been
around the entheogenic community for quite a few years now - have done
the obligatory aya sessions in the Peruvian jungle with the matses, done
the usual kambo, the sapo,the cactii the this, the that, and
occasionally the other, have had non dual states coming out the wazo
until they were like routine visits to the Maya-Lila multiplex - all
moving me towards the one truth - that there is really only one
Consciousness, not many...and that Love is the ruling principle of the
Cosmos....and yet..and yet ...I have to report that I have witnessed
within this community,.. let us say , the dazzling ludic phantasmagoria
of entheogenic psychedelia advocacy, the same levels of snobbery,
careerism, professional rivalry, back-biting, cronyism, clique-ism,
pride , jealousy, paranoia, megalomania and two-faced treachery,...the
exact same seven deadlies commonly seen in any other group, class, or
strata of any other garden variety millennarian self-obsessed sub
culture,the manifesto of which is that we are all 'evolving' to a
higher state -that we shall all 'galactivate' - we are 'becoming
gods' with the help of 'mother Earth's secretions' ...alas this sad
inversion of the truth has been used to enslave mankind for at least
400,000 years..Do these acolytes really believe the laughably short
period of the past 50 years is the preparation for our return to cosmic
awareness in this yuga? The sobering reality is that we have had our
galactic consciousness REMOVED and sold back to us in debased form in
return for a slave paradigm and promise of suzerainty - and this ploy
has been utilized to maintain the prison planet sideshow for a long
long LONG time - aeons - not decades - and that we, as infected
hosts, are genetically designed to forget these facts and our past and
our race memory and most of us die - by design - before we can even
begin to figure it all out - and these our most cherished beliefs
disguise and enshrine forms of the same vassalage that has been our
'birthright' (read curse) for millennia. Videlicet - do these naive
psychonauts think the purveyors of the 'galactivate' concept will ever
give up their careerist roles as 'teachers and guides of humanity' or
relinquish their craving for sex, fame, and the kudos that their
publications bring? The Toad knows, and sits, watching,knowingly,
perhaps even for his own private gag reel, as it gives Man what he most
deeply craves ...yet even so,Man remains a prisoner - by choice...
This is, essentially, a higher iteration of the same infection that is
running the world into the ground with false dichotomies, egotistic
projections, Archon - sponsored marionette wars conducted by proxy
and simplistic notions of a universal panacea - ideological or
plant-based - and that this is the inheritance of all humans possessed
by the primordial etheric parasite..the Gollum ..and that is ,
unhappily - most humans. Ridding oneself of this entity is a
non-trivial operation requiring two things - a humbling acknowledgement
that it exists and is controlling us , coupled with an act of free
will to give Gaian and cosmic intelligence the authority to remove
it... otherwise it remains attached to our subtle bodies...forever -
incarnation after incarnation, non-dual state after non-dual
state...Deracination and Beast-mind divestment is required for
liberation... That is what it takes. Imbibing an entheogen is only part
of the process and at some point terminates with the individual's
choice to maintain the illusion of the 'experiencing' dyadic self, of
alignment with the primary infestation, ...of ego, which is simply the
user-friendly term for the well camouflaged parasite that feeds off our
life force. I tried to put all this to a well- known member of the
entheogenic community and he suggested that I spend thousands of dollars
venturing to Peru once again, where for a small fee, a specialist
curandero with custom icaros , would rid me of these 'delusions' that
have been revealed to me by the sacred vine in the first place!! ...
well..my dear multi-dimensional friends - .if this is the level of
awareness produced by one of our chief toad advocates, I am not
sanguine that it will provide any fresh or permanent solution -
'secreted by the Mother' - that will bear fruit...just as the LSD
revolution was hijacked by self-promoting, self appointed pundits such
as Leary and the spiritual heirs of Crowley the Beast, or even the
revered saint Terrence, who, for all his insights, never seemed to
escape the hall of mirrors that is the fractal cascade feedback
paradox, in which he tried but failed to control or even understand
the 'machine elves' of his own flagrantly playful conscious
biological processes. The primordial parasite, or ego, to use the
'Archon-approved' term, undoes the mightiest of creatures, such as Man,
placed on this isthmus of a middle state - a being darkly wise and
rudely great, The toad sits, immune from all predators, even the
slithering reptile - and demonstrates that peak non-dual states have
the power but not the authority to remove the core infestation. The
authority lies with us, or rather the cosmically integrated truly
sovereign Self. The Mother has spoken, and told us, our passage has
been paid for...repay Her by doing something about the state of her
realm, her kingdom, her principality, the outrageous wrongs committed by
the mind controlled slaves under the aegis of the myth of 'evolution'
or 'human improvement' or 'galactivation'..these are the well-laid
booby-traps of the mirror world, of Orwellian newspeak, of the wielders
of worldly power. the cultists of 'Self-progression' movements, laid
down by our cunning Masters, the tinkerers of our genes, who sell back
to us what they have stolen and hijack our most sacred revelations to
keep the hamster wheels turning by worship of the Word, not the deed.
Maya Larissa Yes ..spiritual apathy, delusional epiphanies & an excess of verbose energy .. when in heavens name will we rise with authentic action?
Powerful post.
Thomas Ray When does an entheogen become a diablogen?
Grapes O Thoth exactly. Have I written about this before?
Grapes O Thoth This is what happened to the Mayans, for example
Write a reply...
Richard King This is certainly an interesting though not an entirely new proposition so lets get down to the nitty gritty. Tell us of the precise nature of these parasitic, intelligent, Archon Mr Grapes, where do they dwell i.e. are they physical, trans dimensional, psychic, all of the above? How may they be identified and "deracinated?" What are the measurable affects and effects of their eviction from consciousness?
Grapes O Thoth I believe you have read my blog, Mr King...in particular, 'This Mortal Coil'
Grapes O Thoth http://grapesofthoth.blogspot.com.au/.../normal-0-false...
‘The truth that sets you free will firstly re-enact the drama of your enslavement .’ - This Mortal Coil chapter…
grapesofthoth.blogspot.com|By Grapes O Thoth
Michael Kalyaano The mystery is on the surface. All the stories are pointers. Clinging to opinions and comparing delays awakening. The answers to questions and doubts are within us all.
Sebastian Job I'm glad for this intervention, and welcome its spirit. I hope it helps waken a more critical spirit. But... everything you've written is in the mode of assertion. And one bare assertion is worth no more than another bare assertion (as Hegel put it)....See More
Grapes O Thoth Thank you for your comment. My personal experience is that there is no convincing anyone. To explain is to use received cyber-linguistic thought-forms, which plays into the hands of those who own these tools of (mis)appropriation. The method employed...See More
Grapes O Thoth Wittgenstein's tractatus is nothing but assertion...
Write a reply...
Richard King Yes I have read This Mortal Coil and as Sebastian says above it is strong on assertion. It identifies many evils and I believe is a valuable contribution not least because we could do with more critical thinking, but what we need are more specifics, evidence and 'deracination' practicalities.
Grapes O Thoth I'm sorry you have not read this mortal coil, but merely a bullet point summary. This is not the work, it is the blurb...It will be available for download soon when I have finished my research and bibliography.
Write a reply...
Col. Kurtz Good work Grapes O Thoth however space is the final frontier,:white-space between paragraphs! 
:)
:)
Grapes O Thoth How does one make paras? ctrl+enter? When I press enter it posts, which is not what I want obviously. Sorry I'm a tech-tard
Col. Kurtz Shift+enter will do the trick, when re-editing your post.
Write a reply...
Richard King I venture to say that: If the deracination/de-parasitisation process enabled the journeyer to retain the unboundedness or other attributes attained during the journey then this would constitute proof in the form that would satisfy most of the contributors to this forum.
Lee Robinson proof of what,? please remind me Mr King
Richard King Proof of Grape's archaron observations for the unboundedness et al would not be sabotaged by these parasites. This archaron theory is not so far from L. Ron Hubbard's 'decayed thetan' theory.
Write a reply...
Grapes O Thoth I don
Grapes O Thoth Do you want proof or do you want to be rid of the thing stopping you from escaping the matrix? Because then I will be addressing the possessor, not the possessed.
Grapes O Thoth If you can see demonic entities in people, society judges you harshly , locks you up,calls you crazy...may even crucify you... But those who can see such things are dangerous to the Archons. Hence their demonization. This is the great irony. There is ...See More
Richard King Yes however he arrived at Castaneda nailed some mythic truths. I perceived the 'lines of the universe' months before I tread his description of same, for instance.
Write a reply...
Maya Larissa The archons, parasites & all that jazz seem to me a distraction from the quality aspects of this messsage : ie, apathy is rife amongst 'spirituality.'
Grapes O Thoth yes...I agree...about the apathy...
Lee Robinson 'The archons, parasites & all that jazz'... for me they giveth much needed intellectual substantiation to the potentiality of our existence in 'The Simulation Theory' or holographic reality as per https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100009428641500 and http://wespenre.com/.../wes_penre___synthetic_super... ... and/or they are a distraction. hee hee. cheers
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Michael Van Leeuwen Schweizerbüm!
I just lost a short contributory essay on this!...See More
I just lost a short contributory essay on this!...See More
The Teafaerie I have a fairly incompatible reality grid, as we have discussed. I really do appreciate your writing style, though! And your compassion for the human condition. Than you for caring. Most sincerely. *salutes, blows teahorn*
Lee Robinson Fuck yes!!!!!!
Joan Trujillo Thanks for the reflexion. I had only one Toad experience three months ago. To me it's clear that the essence of it is the process after whatever happened in the mind, neurological circuitry or whatever. All the fireworks, experiential or intellectual a...See More
Kenneth Vuisting Yes only one conciousness
Love is also patience ..stillness ..unending
Love is also patience ..stillness ..unending
Grainne Savage My goodness, beautifully expressed 
🍇
The gift of language is truly yours.
💯 % with you.
🍇 The gift of language is truly yours.
💯 % with you.
Grapes O Thoth Why thank you....:)
:)
Vince Vin-Zen Wishart I hear you, I feel you, I see you. Loud and clear
Grapes O Thoth For anyone who wants a primer on what Archons are and how they operate, read this:http://evelorgen.com/.../archontic-cop-cats-and-parasite.../
evelorgen.com
Lee Robinson these guys are also in alignment with Eve. http://wespenre.com/.../wes_penre___synthetic_super... https://augtellez.wordpress.com/.../genetic-engineering.../
Write a reply...
Grapes O Thoth It's contemporary - only a few thousand years old.
Jans Olde Wolbers All I know for certain is this: breathe, be present, everything else is a story. We are great story tellers and easily create false idols. The universe around us is a reflection of what is inside. Breathe, be present and go inside. That is that path of the spiritual warrior.
Thomas Ray This might be relevant:
"A primary theory of this work is that human destructiveness is transmitted energetically through the domains of mind and culture. Mind, and its collective manifestation we call culture are energetic and informational domains,...See More
"A primary theory of this work is that human destructiveness is transmitted energetically through the domains of mind and culture. Mind, and its collective manifestation we call culture are energetic and informational domains,...See More
SHADOW TECH Cracking the Codes of Personal and Collective Darkness An alchemcial quest for spiritual transformation A book by Colin E. Davis and Melissa Mari [vc_column_inner width="1/6"] Download the free e-book Version 1.1 [vc_column_inner width="5/6"] Is
shadowtechbook.com
Grapes O Thoth The process of viral infection is exactly holomorphic to the process of psychic invasion - mimicry , replication , reproduction of corrupted source code...
Kenneth Vuisting So how does one see the difference?
Grapes O Thoth You need to have level 33 access
Write a reply...
Grapes O Thoth Entheogens are thus capable of vectoring powerful terratomorphic (gene altering) AI agents
Francisco Flores Well eloquently said. Many times, I reflect on how many Aya’s, sapitos, and Peyotes I need ingest or smoke to be one with god. And The answer is; we are god, god is within us. Entheogens are just a vehicle, we must get on board and accept that fact.
Anne Maareta Paré I would like to share in this thread my compassion for medicine carriers and those dedicated to it.
A monk once told me: it is not because I meditate all day every day that I know any better, it is just that I have a commitment to meditating.
When we...See More
A monk once told me: it is not because I meditate all day every day that I know any better, it is just that I have a commitment to meditating.
When we...See More
River Jameson I have dropped out of this community and this is my last post here. I feel very much like Neroli. I know without a doubt that it's not the toad or the psychedelics that are a problem. I've seen this same phenomena of power struggle, dominance, and ste...See More
Neroli Makim 
💜
❤
💙
💚💜💙❤
✨
🙌
💜❤💙💚💜💙❤✨🙌
Dean Jefferys I have enjoyed your input River Jameson <3
<3
Write a reply...
River Jameson Grapes O Thoth,Thank you, that was clearer and even more I could feel you, keep simplifying the message and emotionally clearing your feelings and it will keep clarifying. Your voice is important and I appreciate your seeing and your desire to communicate it. You'll find your way free because your committed to it. All of us who are will.
Žarko Almuli 'CAN WE TRUST GRAPES O THOTH?' - ..
The fleshy, freshly branded (tattooed) Beauty, from a wetware-oriented database, entranced (infected) by the Cyborg-Beast dominator species: a festering of sorts, the feeding of the fetishist, the false golden egg-l...See More
The fleshy, freshly branded (tattooed) Beauty, from a wetware-oriented database, entranced (infected) by the Cyborg-Beast dominator species: a festering of sorts, the feeding of the fetishist, the false golden egg-l...See More
Grapes O Thoth 'No, do not trust me. Do not trust anyone' (Buddha)
Žarko Almuli 'Revelation' is a tricky trope: while offering solace or elation, the rush of a delirious high .. it may -at best- just be another rung on the ladder to infinite hyper-dimensionality.
Why is any account valid - including 'official' neuroscience, cosmo...See More
Why is any account valid - including 'official' neuroscience, cosmo...See More
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Nathan Frank TLDR
Michelange Quay if you see the same struggle between good and evil in this community as in every other commmunity, as in every moment of our waking life, every moment of our dreaming thought, it means that we reading this right now can't help but ask ourselves what mu...See More
River Jameson Not a struggle between good and evil. No,just choices, no wrong or right and I am actively creating and have community that is choosing a new context and doing the deep work. I'm just not attracted to this format right now. It's ok, free will.
Michelange Quay on the contrary, choices aren't good or evil as such, there's no scorecard. YOU and ME are making "good and evil" choices based on our motivation behind the choices. based on whether we'd wish what we're doing to others on ourselves. there's no absolut...See More
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Dominique Wolf Amanzi thankyou !
Grapes O Thoth The difficulty of maintaining the state of realization , as demonstrated by many traditions of spiritual practice over many aeons, has led me to ask why this is so, and my findings have led me away from the niceties of practice towards something much...See More
River Jameson The key is core movement, vibration, feeling everything freely without judgement. I intend you hear this brother.❤❤
❤❤
Write a reply...
Žarko Almuli Problem is, the impulse to reign in the terror of realisation, bearing with the bareness of [the] otherworld, effectively surfing the fluctuation of flux; human-based vessels/platforms/interfaces .. an ephemeral pack of cards.
River Jameson Just to clarify, I am not desirous of pointing fingers, this issue of context exists for all of us including me of course. I have spent 50 years owning the reflection of these issues I speak of, the planetary reflection of the dominator context includi...See More
Grapes O Thoth What? Not the Osho 'dynamic meditation'?? Please dear God, don't tell me you're a sannyasin?
River Jameson No, deeper than that. Core movement is freedom. They hate core movement of the emotional body for a reason. I'm bowing out now.
Gareth Krantz Absolutely, this is what I got more than ever from Toad. Love is Free Will. Right Use of Will, a channeled book fell into my laps around the time I did Toad, which has reminded me to stay this way. When I dont (emotional suppression and judgement), I d...See More
River Jameson Gareth Krantz exactly
🙏🏼❤
🙏🏼❤
Write a reply...
Grapes O Thoth Congratulations..
Dean Jefferys If there has been genetic manipulation in humanities history and I'm still not convinced there has been then I feel imbibing toad can show us who when why and where these alterations occurred and give us the insights to heal ourselves. I also feel that...See More
Grapes O Thoth That's sounds hopeful....genetic activation , epigenetics...re-assembly of human consciousness...all these are possible and can be facilitated by Gaian intelligence. The only danger is interception and inversion by the 'M' process of PEEP.
Dean Jefferys m process of PEEP?
Grapes O Thoth PEEP is the primordial enteric etheric parasite. 'M process' occurs when 'Q' (source) is mirrored and mocked in order to be processed by Beast Mind for the purpose of sub-lunar soul sequestration and perpetuation of primary infestation ...It's th...See More
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Ryan Mayo Only if we trust ourselves. Grapes O Thoth
Elena Nezhinsky Can anyone please summarize this post and in a simple words. Thank you!
Grapes O Thoth Are peak non dual events just upgrading the ego in some people?
Neroli Makim There's something i can't shake about this thread...does everyone remember the film "thrive"? So in that film, one of the things that stood out to me more than anything was how a woman explained that the current financial and political system was like a parasite eating the organism from the inside.
The organism itself was a model of very healthy toroid system. A healthy toroid system is life giving and creative in the truest sense - it creates its own supply of energy. But this was being shockingly compromised by this parasitic entity (how she referred to the financial and political system and those running it).
So, if everything in our experience is holographic, what she's speaking about means that the same thing has be the case for human bodies/energy systems and consciousness. Since seeing that film god knows how long ago...that image of the parasite living inside the toroid system and compromising it has stuck with me.
I have no basis for this other than some strange feeling of certainty I've had for a time frame I can't name...that the human body/energy system and consciousness is somehow far greater in capacity than we currently get to experience. For some reason, I have this sense that we are incredibly compromised in comparison to how we were/are designed to be. The human body is a toroid system as is every organic living system.
All I can see that causes the compromise is some extremely deep level of unconsciousness of and disconnection from this experience of ourselves and our capacities to be life giving, life generating systems in the truest creative sense. Most humans do appear to be constantly missing the mark when it comes to experiencing themselves as the source of life and creation in an alchemical manner that reflects a healthy toroid system.
A healthy human toroid would be a clear and accurate reflection of being made in the image of "god" aka, a much bigger, fuck of amazing toroid system that encapsulates a level of creative capacity and consciousness we don't really have a capacity to comprehend because it would blow out our tiny systems circuits...but we can brush against it for glimpses.
The only thing I can see that cause that disconnection is various traits that interfere with it that we would usually ascribe to "ego" although it's a loaded term (and misunderstood) I don't like to use much. Grapes refers to it as the parasitic entity.
From what i can see, is that even when people have momentary experiences of "awakening" or "truth" or whatever you want to call it...invariably, their initial good intentions that spring from this experience are hijacked or at least significantly influenced thereafter by their unconscious motives like desire for power/recognition/money...even "love" - to get a sense of being loved from something or someone outside of themselves. This is how the "inversion" process Grapes keeps talking happens when what was birthed from a moment of divine inspiration does appear to get tangled up then fucked up. It's a fucking mine field to try to navigate explaining this, because language is so loaded.
I've said it before but it really is the best phrase i can find to explain this, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I've seen it play out several times last year where people, including myself, have ended up behaving in ways that are completely and utterly marred with unconscious/shadow.
And this shadow is sticky, it gets in deep and hooks people so they end up being completely deluded about what they're doing, why they're doing it and who they are being in the process. I've found the only way to respond is to be absolutely truthful about what I'm doing, why I'm doing it and how I'm being...and I'm pretty shit at this. But if we're really tangled up, it's almost impossible to be truthful, because we're not even conscious of our deceit/delusion...we're literally acting out unconsciously.
I wasn't able to finish this post as it froze and I didn't think it even posted...I was going to end with my usual which i constantly circle back around to. The only place I can find where i can't con myself or delude myself is if I'm really grounded and connected to my heart. It's the only place that doesn't lie. But as I've mentioned before, this is easier said than done. We (I) can delude ourselves as easily about being connected to our (my) hearts as we can anything else. It's a slippery game:) <3 <3 <3
The organism itself was a model of very healthy toroid system. A healthy toroid system is life giving and creative in the truest sense - it creates its own supply of energy. But this was being shockingly compromised by this parasitic entity (how she referred to the financial and political system and those running it).
So, if everything in our experience is holographic, what she's speaking about means that the same thing has be the case for human bodies/energy systems and consciousness. Since seeing that film god knows how long ago...that image of the parasite living inside the toroid system and compromising it has stuck with me.
I have no basis for this other than some strange feeling of certainty I've had for a time frame I can't name...that the human body/energy system and consciousness is somehow far greater in capacity than we currently get to experience. For some reason, I have this sense that we are incredibly compromised in comparison to how we were/are designed to be. The human body is a toroid system as is every organic living system.
All I can see that causes the compromise is some extremely deep level of unconsciousness of and disconnection from this experience of ourselves and our capacities to be life giving, life generating systems in the truest creative sense. Most humans do appear to be constantly missing the mark when it comes to experiencing themselves as the source of life and creation in an alchemical manner that reflects a healthy toroid system.
A healthy human toroid would be a clear and accurate reflection of being made in the image of "god" aka, a much bigger, fuck of amazing toroid system that encapsulates a level of creative capacity and consciousness we don't really have a capacity to comprehend because it would blow out our tiny systems circuits...but we can brush against it for glimpses.
The only thing I can see that cause that disconnection is various traits that interfere with it that we would usually ascribe to "ego" although it's a loaded term (and misunderstood) I don't like to use much. Grapes refers to it as the parasitic entity.
From what i can see, is that even when people have momentary experiences of "awakening" or "truth" or whatever you want to call it...invariably, their initial good intentions that spring from this experience are hijacked or at least significantly influenced thereafter by their unconscious motives like desire for power/recognition/money...even "love" - to get a sense of being loved from something or someone outside of themselves. This is how the "inversion" process Grapes keeps talking happens when what was birthed from a moment of divine inspiration does appear to get tangled up then fucked up. It's a fucking mine field to try to navigate explaining this, because language is so loaded.
I've said it before but it really is the best phrase i can find to explain this, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I've seen it play out several times last year where people, including myself, have ended up behaving in ways that are completely and utterly marred with unconscious/shadow.
And this shadow is sticky, it gets in deep and hooks people so they end up being completely deluded about what they're doing, why they're doing it and who they are being in the process. I've found the only way to respond is to be absolutely truthful about what I'm doing, why I'm doing it and how I'm being...and I'm pretty shit at this. But if we're really tangled up, it's almost impossible to be truthful, because we're not even conscious of our deceit/delusion...we're literally acting out unconsciously.
I wasn't able to finish this post as it froze and I didn't think it even posted...I was going to end with my usual which i constantly circle back around to. The only place I can find where i can't con myself or delude myself is if I'm really grounded and connected to my heart. It's the only place that doesn't lie. But as I've mentioned before, this is easier said than done. We (I) can delude ourselves as easily about being connected to our (my) hearts as we can anything else. It's a slippery game
:) <3 <3 <3
Sharada Sheppard Hi Neroli, that's a long post...
Sharada Sheppard I think this is not real. It's a virtual reality. A Matrix we need to look for the keys 
🔑 to change our reality.
🔑 to change our reality.
Grapes O Thoth Neroli - you have nailed much of what I try to express ...The Maha Tantra - the unspoken sacred vow between the father of consciousness and the mother of form is the original completion of the intrinsic Sun/earth sacrum/shastra 'toroidal' circuit...the innermost workings reflect the outermost in this nested fractal dance...but it has been infected and therefore short-circuited and compromised. I've seen this directly...visually...our work is cut out for us to get rid of the infection because it's spreading and preventing the most wonderful ordering of mind and matter. and the emergence of the Christ Body ..'the ego' is just a user friendly term that normalizes this infection...that's why I don't like to use that word as people are too familiar with it and think they know what it is as part of them...it is not what people think it is...it is not part of them...it is the eternal saboteur....it is the intercession of our divine bliss ..plant and animal medicine can help enormously but few of us are immune to the 'M' process described above,...thank you for your thoughtful post.
Neroli Makim i know re long Post sharada!!! The thing is, like everyone else - I'm just winging it too! None of us really know for certain what's going on...it's just matter of each one of us sensing our Way and finding whatever works to navigate this matrix/dream...or whatever it is 
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Neroli Makim somehow something might be edging closer to clarity hey grapes? I'm always very wary of thinking there is anything coming into focus because of the loops and inversion scenario that seems to be constantly tripping us up in that regard 
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Chad Charles I thought that this selection may be of interest. Christopher, I hope you don't mind me quoting you: "A psychedelic experience is by definition subjective, but there are certain undeniable common aspects to it beyond the pharmacological effects upon th...See More
The Teafaerie That's interesting. I would had always instinctively though of NN as being the dark side if I has to say which one was which, because of the potential to encounter daemonic or sort of tricksyish entities or environments, where 5 is almost always clean and transparent and full of light for me.... but in the true since of yin and yang I guess that 5 WOULD be the dark side, the yin, the void, the feminine, the unmanifest.
Christopher Ewing Thank you for the quote- that is really meaningful to me that you appreciate it, Chad Charles. And The Teafaerie, I agree with you 100%. I wasn't very clear there, but what I meant was more that 5-meo is somehow often called the " darker" of the two. I've just heard that alot, and whether it is from people that haven't in reality taken 5meo or what, I don't know. Because yes, n,n scares the hell out of me but I've only experienced pure peace in my limited experience with 5meoDmt. On such a level that it irrevocably changed my life. BTW, The Teafaerie, I really appreciated your rap on 5meo in Ashland last year at ExpPsy. I'm working on a presentation proposal for the deadline for this year, and if accepted hope to have a better prepared rambling talk I attempted last year, lol.
Christopher Ewing Even when I was thoroughly convinced I had just finally done it and gone and killed myself the first time I did it, there was only an instant of regret when I thought my roommate would come home from hospital to find my corpse next to a syringe and think that I OD'ed on something else, and wouldn't know the nature of what I was trying to do-which was save myself from crippling depression. Then pure peace and the sensation of really going home.
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